a peek inside the fishbowl

1 | Natalie

March 28th, 2007 at 1:56 pm

I have just started using envirobags – when I remember them – it always feels like I’m making a big difference for our planet and leaving a smaller carbon footprint. That’s what counts right?

2 | Porter

March 28th, 2007 at 2:52 pm

I don’t like plastic bags, I would love the choice between paper and plastic (I would choose paper of course). I have two plastic bins that I use for groceries when I drive to the store. They make shopping and the loading/unpacking so much easier and faster…but not all stores have carts big enough for two bins and one toddler I’m afraid.
Every little bit helps.

3 | Melissa R. Garrett

March 28th, 2007 at 3:47 pm

Cloth bags here. I despise plastic bags. My SIL lives in Ireland where you pay a big fat fee for using plastic. Yay for San Fran!!

4 | jen

March 28th, 2007 at 4:39 pm

I love that about SF. Now if they can only follow through on banning guns.

we try and recycle, or put groceries in a backpack. not always, though. it’s not enough.

5 | BeachMama

March 28th, 2007 at 6:39 pm

For the most part we use bins and cloth bags for groceries, but I do have to admit that with two large dogs, we use a good amount of plastic bags to dispose of the poop. I have heard about flushing it, but that just won’t be working for me here. If there was a better solution to the poop, then I would be just fine without the plastic.

6 | Alex

March 28th, 2007 at 8:19 pm

Sorry, I’m evil … and I like plastic bags. And while I’m being evil, I’ll also be a little picky … those quoted numbers seem pretty big, but what are they as a percentage of SF’s total use (for oil) or output (for CO2)?

7 | Karen

March 28th, 2007 at 9:18 pm

Yes, I use plastic, however, I keep them all and the recycle them at Loeb. Loeb has a blue bin in the stores and they will accept and recycle any stores’ plastic bags. How good is that?

8 | Ryan

March 28th, 2007 at 9:41 pm

I would love to do away with plastic bags, I’ve seen way to many.

In Taiwan, the big stores were banned from using them and technically there was a law on the books banning small businesses from using them too, but the small businesses were the worst, wrapping anything in a bag. Sometimes I had to fight to have something not wrapped in a bag.

Same deal here in Argentina. In fact, at the grocery store, for some odd reason, they will not put food and non-food items in the same bag. I’ve seen people buy soap and milk and walk out of the store with two bags.

We have a reusable bag. It’s a fight here too to get people to put things in that instead of in a plastic bag.

And does it really matter what percentage it is of their output? Doesn’t every little bit matter, especially if everyone starts doing it, and it uses less of our limited resources?

9 | Scattered Mom

March 29th, 2007 at 12:04 am

I hate plastic bags. I always try to refuse them, or at least use as few as possible. Little frustrates me more then the store in my town that packs only two things in a bag and you end up with a zillion bags when you grocery shop.

I bougth some reuseable bags, and I love them. Now if I could just get the store to pack my groceries in them. Ug.

10 | andrea

March 29th, 2007 at 7:16 am

Alex, I can’t answer your question. Even if the figures are off one way or another I think that bags are still an unnecessary burden on our system. They use up resources in their creation, and they can’t be recycled.

I’ve totally converted to the purple plastic grocery bins from Loblaws. We’re a three-bin family and keep them in the trunk for when we need them. Mind you, there are times that I forget to bring the bins, but overall we have drasticallly reduced the number of bags we use.
I use cloth bags if it’s a smaller shop and happen to be walking, but I only have a few and they don’t hold much. The other day I make the mistake of buying a bag of milk and walking home with it, along with three other bags of groceries. I had to use my umbrella as a yoke!

Kitchenalia on Richmond Rd. have some great tote bags for groceries, as well as a selection of foldable bags with little wheels on the bottom. I might look into that next time I’m passing by.

I wonder if there is such a thing as a cool-looking grocery dolly?

11 | Jen_nifer

March 29th, 2007 at 11:44 am

Paper or plastic? I never get asked this question. Are the stores still stocking paper bags?

I have to admit that for groceries I use their plastic bags 98% of the time. Last spring/summer/fall I walked to the grocery store (a big deal in Orleans) with the stroller a couple of times and used the storage area in it to carry stuff home. I have tried giving them a canvas bag, but it seems like such an ordeal for the cashier. But I would totally support a ban/tax on plastic bags. That way I would never be caught off guard when I shopped at a Price Chopper or Food Basics, because all stores would charge you for bags.

My small effort in this area has been to refuse bags when I go into a store and buy one or two items. Or more items when they are small enough to fit into my purse. I have always found it funny that when I go and buy a bag of milk, I am offered another bag to carry it in.

I used to recycle the bags when the City of Ottawa was still collecting them, but now that I have a young son, I don’t have a surplus anymore. We use them to bag up poopy diapers before they hit his diaper pail to minimize the stink.

12 | Lex

March 29th, 2007 at 1:29 pm

Hate plastic bags. Hate the pile of them that my spouse keeps amassing under the sink like a little nest for feril creatures to call home… in fact, I’m sure I hear something rustling around in them every night.

Toronto’s chair of Toronto’s public works and infrastructure committee, Glenn De Baeremaeker is actually trying to do something about it: Toronto Star. But honestly, I’d love to see a ban on over packaging more.

13 | Jenn

March 29th, 2007 at 3:25 pm

Our grocery store encourages you to bring your own bags. We generally store several plastic ones in the reusauble bags to use again if we run out of room in the others. A sign in the store and on the back of the bags themselves reads “…But if you want to use ours it will cost you 5 cents. Then we will pitch in another 5 cents and donate it all to these worthy charities…”. A good comprimize considering about four in five bring their own bags.

14 | Pearl

March 29th, 2007 at 6:16 pm

I reuse plastic bags at different shopping trips an bring cloth and use the plastic bags for kitty litter but still, I’d cope happily if it were banned.

15 | Mary G

March 30th, 2007 at 4:05 pm

My shopping town is Perth and a group of the bigger retailers there, including the two grocery stores, have clubbed together and introduced cloth bags which they sell at the checkouts, etc. This is almost a year old now and what is funny is that people are using them for all sorts of other things as well.
Our Loeb recycles plastic bags, too. And I have used purple bins(only mine are green because they are years and years old) where carts that accommodate them exist.
You haven’t seen ugly until you have seen the bags draped over trees and bushes around a rural garbage dump.
Now if we could just get rid of some of the styrofoam meat dishes.

I like your blog! Interesting stuff about Ottawa which is my nearest city.

16 | zoom!

March 30th, 2007 at 9:42 pm

Councilor Diane Holmes tried to introduce a ban on plastic bags a couple of years ago, and I was against it for two reasons.

1) Because I don’t have a car, I have to carry my groceries 8+ blocks. It’s hard enough with plastic bags, and I just can’t do it with paper bags – it would take me three times as many trips to the grocery store. The same probably holds true for many low-income families.

2) As a dog-owner, I needed the plastic bags for pooping and scooping. In fact, I used to get my coworkers to bring me THEIR plastic bags whenever I was running low.

I do understand the environmental concerns, and think customers should be offered a choice at the checkout. Not everybody needs or wants plastic bags, but I do.

17 | Natalie

March 31st, 2007 at 6:34 am

I just found out that Herb & Spice have biodegradable plastic bags! They desintegrate within 12 months. How cool is that?
Now if only big box retailers would follow suit.
One small step…

18 | andrea

March 31st, 2007 at 8:13 am

Hi Zoom! I want to address the points you made.

1) Sounds like you’re in the same grocery situation we’re in. More often than not I don’t have a car available when I need to shop. Carrying paper bags any sort of distance is a real drag. And I’m not entirely sure there is an environmental benefit to requesting paper bags anyway. Paper uses up the same resources we need to start conserving. So why not cloth bags? Or use a carry cart instead? I find cloth better than plastic because they’re sturdier, and have wider handles that are easier to grasp. I have yet to find a funky carry cart but I’m working on it. :)

2) I’m not a dog owner anymore, but I used to be. I feel your pain. If plastic grocery bags were outlawed dog owners will have to (a) buy their own bags. There are biodegradable bags just for this purpose. (b) find other sources for plastic bags: bread bags, pita bags etc. I had a roommate who washed out his milk bags and used them to wrap sandwiches. (c) Technically-speaking, aren’t dog-owners advised not to put poop in the garbage? Isn’t it supposed to be flushed so it doesn’t end up in our municipal dumps? Someone out there needs to invent some kind of contraption that will allow the dog owner to make a clean scoop and bring it somewhere it can be flushed and property treated as sewage.

Hmmm. Complicated issue, isnt’ it? But the thing is, the banning of plastic bags has been done elsewhere. And in other places plastic bags never existed in the first place. And somehow the people in those places manage to do their grocery shopping just fine. Why do we seem to need them, while they don’t?

19 | liss76

April 3rd, 2007 at 6:48 am

Saw this on BoingBoing and thought of this thread:

http://www.craftzine.com/blog/archive/2007/03/plastic_grocery_bags_into_knit.html

20 | andrea

April 3rd, 2007 at 11:20 am

Wow. That can’t be comfortable. :)

There’s also this idea. If I knew how to crochet I would definitely give it a try.

21 | liss76

April 3rd, 2007 at 12:39 pm

I was intending to cut up old grocery bags and knit some sacks of my own, but I’ve too many projects on the go right now–so I donated them to Salvation Army.. all 2 pounds of them.

Let me tell you, 2 pounds of plastic bags is a lot of plastic bags! LOL

I’ve knit things from recycled scraps of clothing before, though–they make awesome dish rags and bath mitts.

22 | Robert

April 3rd, 2007 at 5:15 pm

Our City’s trying to reduce use of plastic bags. I wrote a short article that included this initiative, but had trouble saying much about it, since the city caved into the plastics lobby. Ultimately, I doubt people will spend $2 to buy a ‘more durable’ reusable plastic bag when the conventional product is still available for free. Worse yet, a lot of Ontario municipalities are thinking of copying our program.
http://www.saultthisweek.com/webapp/sitepages/gencontent.asp?contentID=2458&catname=Other%20STW%20Pages
scroll down to ‘let’s reduce waste article.’ (ps – mind the multiple editorial blunders!)

But there’s still a huge movement to eliminate these things. Mall-wart is even moving away from them.

As Andrea noted, here’s an alternative to fossil-based plastics
http://usinfo.state.gov/gi/Archive/2004/Aug/24-641357.html
As with biofuels, these products still have many social and ecological controversies.(see for example this http://www.theecologist.org/archive_detail.asp?content_id=838 ) Best to reduce, which is why I like Andrea’s idea of a bundle buggy.

A cool bundle buggy? – use a bike trailer or jogger stroller. I use ours for everything, and when it’s attached to the bike, drivers actually respect me as a cyclist and give a wide berth.

Alex – The numbers quoted in the cbc article actually seem a little low. 200 million bags stacks up to our city’s use of 25 million only from large grocery retailers. Our population is 1/10th that of San Fran. I would suspect we use closer to 35 million in total, suggesting San Fran should be closer to 350 million.

Also, the 1.5 million litres of oil per 100 million bags is incorrect. It’s actually is closer to 1.6 million litres – a difference of 100,000 litres – or 2000 fill-ups for the average minivan gas tank.

Just released by Time Magazine
http://www.time.com/time/specials/2007/environment/
see it’s advice on plastic bags
http://www.time.com/time/specials/2007/environment/article/0,28804,1602354_1603074_1603179,00.html

23 | liss76

April 3rd, 2007 at 7:16 pm

I’m looking for a ‘cool’ cart, too. I briefly considered one of the wheeled MEC large-capacity duffle totes, but they’re pricey and seem fairly limited for weight for their size.

Lately I’ve been eyeing our el cheapo umbrella stroller–it’s hit its lifespan as a stroller, as our youngest is over 3 now (and we’ve a ‘better’ umbrella one to use, should we need to) and it’s not in any sort of condition to sell or even give away. It’s definately been.. uh.. *used*.

I’m formulating a plan in my mind to take the existing frame and modify it into a grocery carry-all by sewing and attaching a giant bag with a drawstring top. My plan hasn’t even extended, yet, to putting it down on paper–but the important thing is that I’m thinking of ways to reuse ‘useless’ stuff that I already own instead of adding more garbage to the landfill!

24 | andrea

April 3rd, 2007 at 7:38 pm

Cool carts don’t exist. Liss, if you can create something funky you could potentially make a million dollars.

I’m thinking about something like this for myself.

25 | andrea

April 3rd, 2007 at 7:39 pm

Robert: thanks for all the info!

26 | Dar

April 23rd, 2007 at 9:43 am

And what about all the trees that will be killed to make paper bags

27 | andrea

April 23rd, 2007 at 9:53 am

Although paper bags do usually contain recycled fibres and be made from selectively farmed wood, I don’t think they’re making a big comeback.

BTW, I bought one of the new envirobags from the Superstore the other day and it’s great: sturdy, good size, good-length handles, flat-bottom. And it’s partly made out of plastic pop bottles. But for some reason they chose to make it BLACK. (?) It doesn’t make me want to take it shopping when I know I’ll be walking home with perishable groceries on a hot summer day.

28 | liss76

April 23rd, 2007 at 6:26 pm

I’m knitting myself some new bags to add to my ever-growing collection. I’m using recycled and repurposed fabrics, as well as some newer fabric (bargains from the ends-bin at the fabric store).

I don’t typically go for the non-cloth reusable bags. I like my grocery bags washable–they need to survive a hot/cold wash cycle and run the dryer gamut intact. :) They just don’t feel clean to me if I can’t easily wash and dry them.

29 | liss76

April 25th, 2007 at 5:08 pm

Andrea!

Go. To. Heavens To Betsy. NOW!

(and look at what’s in the window:D)

/covet (but in a different color combo)

30 | Miss Vicky

April 25th, 2007 at 7:38 pm

oh yeah… the black and white number inside… just perfect for those Wellington Shuffles!

31 | liss76

April 26th, 2007 at 6:58 am

Hey now! That’s the one I’m coveting! :D

I didn’t see the price, though–did you?

Alternately, I’m considering getting a regular ol’ black one somewhere and stenciling it with a skull and crossbones and a “Yar–here be pirates!”

LOL

32 | liss76

April 30th, 2007 at 6:03 pm

I got the bag. It’s mine. Mwahahahahaha!! I’m totally jazzed about taking it out for its inaugural spin. :)

They’ve only one left–it’s pink/lime/red/blue/brown/white stripes. Pretty funky, but just not my colors. They’re selling them for $65 each. They’ve another order in, but it won’t be arriving until the end of June.

33 | andrea

April 30th, 2007 at 6:56 pm

liss – I haven’t been able to get down there to see these superlyawesome bags for myself. Are you going to take a pic of the one you bought or what? :)

p.s. I bought a cool bag too. Pics to come!

34 | Miss Vicky

April 30th, 2007 at 8:50 pm

Damn you, Liss!!!!!! I like the stripey one but it may clash with my umbrella. Meh.

35 | a peek inside the fish bowl

May 2nd, 2007 at 7:54 am

[…] The point that really struck me was about the plastic grocery bags. As some of you know it’s a real bug in my bonnet. Their invention was borne of sheer convenience. There is really no need for these things to exist! […]

36 | liss76

May 2nd, 2007 at 12:14 pm

Heehee! Sorry! (Well, not really–it’s pretty freaking awesome! :D) The brandname is murval.

This is the one still at Heavens To Betsy:

http://www.beachstore.com/detail.aspx?ID=2087

Mine is the same, but in this print:

http://www.missmousey.com/s.nl/it.A/id.528/.f

LOVE! :D It reminds me of the chenille wallpaper my grandmother had in her dining room when I was little. :)

37 | Siobhan

May 7th, 2007 at 9:43 am

The Murval buggy is also available at The Bay, or at Toss and Serve in the concourse level of First Canadian Place in Toronto (they just got a new shipment and have all styles available at the moment). They are as cool as buggys get.

38 | andrea

May 16th, 2007 at 7:16 am

So for the past few kitchen-garbage pails I’ve tucked a milk bag inside instead of the Glad bags we’ve been using.

It’s a lot smaller, and makes garbage disposal a little awkward because you’re more likely to miss… but those milk bags are surprisingly strong. When it’s full I tie it with a plastic milk tag and chuck it into the outdoor garbage bin.

I’m pretty happy with that solution!

39 | scatteredmom

February 5th, 2008 at 7:10 pm

Hey Andrea, I heard that Vancouver is considering a plastic bag ban too.

I wouldn’t miss plastic bags really, I don’t use them anymore. Whole Foods actually plans to stop using plastic by Earth Day.

40 | kshitij

May 16th, 2009 at 11:40 pm

people please i request all of o please stop using plastic bags